Dear Mona: Attached is in interview with Martin printed on TWIBP Website. It
is in two parts. I apologize for the length but I thought you might be
interested.

G-d Bless Israel
Jim

Interviewer:

What is your connection to the Vatican?

M. Martin:

Well I worked there, especially with Pope John XXIII and Cardinal Baer, German Cardinal who was stationed in Rome, and then worked with Paul VI. Left Rome and came to U.S., so you keep your friends, and your enemies, by the way, you never lose them, so I have very deep connections with a lot of people in Rome, although at the age of 75 they're being winnowed by `Father Time'. I go back there periodically and keep a very close connection, and many of my books are about the Vatican and about the Papacy and about Catholicism and about religion in general, but particularly, the Vatican.

Interviewer:

One of your books is about the `new world order'. What is it?

M. Martin:

The `New World Order' is a new system of financial arrangements by which the trade of the world has been re-organized according to the new globalist principles. Most people think the New World Order is about to come. The New World Order is here already, which means that our trade and the flow of capital and the flow of capital goods are regulated by an international body of men and women, mainly men, and that has only started, and, I suppose, when you are my age it will be in full swing. It's the New World order and it's going to regulate governments because all governments depend on money and if they don't get the money and don't have the flow of capital and capital goods; if they can't trade, they die.

That's the New World Order. Seventy or a hundred years ago a nation could live without ever trading. Now you can't, and even the so-called communist states like North Korea now find that they will perish unless they trade, and they have to enter this New World Order. It all depends how far this New World Order is going to go because the New World Order is animated by one thing, and one thing only - profit - money. You and I both know as human beings and as
believers that money has no morality in itself, just as capitalism has no inherent morality in itself, so that if money is the dominant factor in the New World Order it must be leavened by belief and by religion and by the more beautiful things of human life, otherwise we will deteriorate into a jungle, so that's the New World Order.

Interviewer:

You mentioned that the New World Order is controlled by global principles, can you tell me about these global principles.

M. Martin:

The global principles nowadays are in ways rather baffling because there's no doubt about it that the tendency of the globalist groups now existing, who are very powerful, is to limit the population of the earth. It is to make certain continents both dumping grounds and extraction grounds, that is, grounds where waste can be dumped and where the goods of the earth can be extracted. It is very safe to say, for instance, that Africa, the continent of Africa, is now a place from which the other nations are going to extract goods, and they're not going to enrich Africa necessarily, and anyway, Africa politically is way back I suppose at the level at which Europe was in the 12th Century, not even that, so that there's no real governmental institutions in the various countries, but Africa is one of those countries which is unfortunate because the New World Order is going to use it as a place for extracting gold, oil, manganese, lead, wood, etc., etc., but not enriching it to the same measure, so that's one principle, it's to limit population the use of population.

No 2, there is the fact that certain nations are favored; there's no doubt about that. The major seven industrial nations have a higher standard of living and accordingly, as they advance their standard of living the others can't catch up. You can't imagine the Pygmies in the Kalahari Desert catching up with New York or England or Germany or Belgium or France, so there's
necessarily a big division arising. You have that exemplified completely in India where there are about 25 million people who can hold their own with anybody in the West in culture, in science, in religion, and then you have a vast population ..

India is a perfect example of the condition of things today.

You have 20-25 million people who are completely cultured, who can hold their own in languages and in science and riches and culture and religion and learning with anybody in the West, or with anybody anyplace in the world, and the rest is a very primitive people, laboring under terrible conditions, socially bad conditions, politically bad conditions, physically bad
conditions, and India is climbing to almost one billion in population, rivaling Communist China, so the globalists look on this as merely a phase in the development of humanity and they very easily speak about the useless eaters. Useless eaters are people who are not productive and who are old or little - little babies, too many babies, they're useless eaters, and old
people who can't work, they're useless eaters also, so they have a very dispassionate view of humanity, and it's not Christian, or Buddhist or Jewish or religious in any sense of the word, it's strictly utilitarian because the principle is follow the money and money is, as we've said, totally amoral, there's no morality connected with it at all.

So that's the second principle of the New World Order. The third principle is homogenization. What it means by that is that they are going to establish one common education - East, West, North and South - so the children, say, in the former Soviet Union will be studying the same text books as children in Oshkosh, Wisconsin or in Surrey, England, or in Barry, Italy, in different
languages, yes, perhaps, but the same education, so that there's a homogenization of culture and that, of course, means that traditional art forms like dance, theater, literature, acting, poetry, are all going to be leveled, and we're going to see the disappearance, and in fact, today, there is no great literature starting, there is no great musical movement, there's repetition of our past musical achievements, there's a little bit of progress in dance, but nothing, in the theater, there's nothing new.

These things have died down and humanity is entering a new phase under the impulse of globalism. Then, of course, there is always the political homogenization. There's no doubt about it that the plans of the globalists as such whether they are in the UN or whether they are in the trilateral commission or they are in the (pause) foreign policy associations around the
world, their policy is to finally create one political will throughout the world, and therefore, to create a new sort of peace, and there's no doubt about it that the time will come when, for instance, Canada, the local legislators will legislate about trees in the park, about garbage collection, but they will not legislate about foreign policy.

That will be all done by the New World Government; and similarly with the United States. You can foresee the time when the Congress and the Senate in the United States will similarly be engaged in local matters but nothing major, nothing continental, and certainly nothing global. No foreign policy, no wars, nothing like that. These are the plans, however, there are a lot of
obstacles in the way for these plans being achieved, but this is the New World Order. The New World Order is very inimical to traditional religion, it's very inimical to Judaism, it's very inimical to Christianity, and especially inimical to Roman Catholicism, because Roman Catholicism is almost one billion members now in its membership, it is spread throughout the world, it is political power and diplomatic power as well as religious power, and many a government has sought to bypass the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church to their cost. They find they can't.

They go back again and again. The reason is that this ancient dynamic in the Vatican and in the Roman Catholic Church that can't be bypassed, no matter what they do. The Vatican as such, and the Catholic Church as such, is unassimilable about the New World Order. Why? well, Catholicism claims the right to educate the child exclusively, whereas the New World Order wants to homogenize all education. The Catholic Church insists on regulating marriages
and the family is the basic unit of society and the Catholic Church is against abortion and is against homosexuality, homosexual marriages and homosexual style of life which now is in great vogue at the present moment. (Note: loud horn noise is heard) It's against divorce in principle, it gives annulments but not divorces.

The Catholic Church in particular is an obstacle to the New World Order as it stands because the Catholic Church makes several demands which the New World Order does not like. The Church insists on education of the child. The Church insists on the family unit based on marriage in the Church, and the Catholic Church objects to genetic engineering, it objects to homosexuality, it objects to abortion and contraception. It has very strict rules on all these things. A lot of Catholics don't observe them but still and all the Church does officially. Just now in the last week eight American Cardinals wrote a letter to the American Government, to President Clinton in particular, attacking him for the latest bill he vetoed which against partial abortion.

Eight Cardinals is a hefty phalanx to face, even if you are President of the United States. On top of all that, there is no doubt about it that every secular organization, whether it be the Grand Lodge in any country or whether it be governments, do regard the Roman Catholic Church as a source of social stability and political stability and therefore they would like to get it on their side, so the struggle starting now at the present moment is between those in the Catholic Church who want to go along with the New World Order, and many bishops do, we have 4, 500 bishops in the Catholic Church, and roughly half of them would go along with the New World Order, the others say no, no, it's irreconcilable with our faith, so there's a huge war developing
there.

The tendency of the present Pope is to go along with the New World Order, in fact he blesses the New World Order as much as he can. So that's the position of the New World Order and religion. Now the other major religions like Judaism and Buddhism and Hinduism are inept to resist the New World Order because they are based on an outlook which is pre-scientific. The Catholic Church and a lot of the Protestant churches, but the Catholic Church is the major body, has already entered into the scientific age. It's on the Internet, it's on the information highway, it has adapted itself to that. Hinduism can't do that, neither can Buddhism, neither can Confucianism. Judaism in its really pure form cannot either. They are isolationists. The Church has taken that on and we'll have to see what happens as the New World Order is established.

Interviewer:

Could you give me a short list of the principles of the New World Order.

M. Martin:

There's the question of international trade, everybody must trade, you can't
live without trading. You must belong to the international banking system,
otherwise you won't get capital and you must trade in order to get capital
goods come to you and you send your capital goods abroad and therefore live
and not die. You must also participate in global education for your children,
for your families, for your cities, for your government; and you must also
subscribe to the international laws that are now being established. For
instance, the European Union, the EU insists that every government provide
abortion for their people, and that's a necessity; you must have that.

Also contraceptives, you must apply that, it's one of the laws of the EU and
they're going to extend it to any nation that joins the European Union, and so
on. Then you have the question of foreign policy. That one alone will be
decided by local Parliaments, by say, the Parliament in Canada, in Ottawa, or
the United States Senate and Congress, that would be all decided by an
international body, probably some form of the United Nations. Those are the
main principles of the New World Order, but it is also basically anti the
morality as preached by the old religions. It is against that. It wants to
have another form of the family. It doesn't want the traditional family style.
It wants family in the broad sense of the word, whether it's homosexual or
heterosexual, whether it's single units or many units, communal families, it
wants a very, very pliable and flexible and plastic definition of family,
whereas the old religions say no, it's father, mother and children and
extended relatives, so there's a clash there.

Interviewer:

Who are the main players working to create the New World Order

M. Martin:

What most people don't know is that every day there are billions of dollars
sloshed around in the international markets - London, Tokyo, Dusseldorf,
Frankfurt, Rome, Paris, wherever, and there are probably millions of small
investors. There are just a few investors who play daily, hold your hat, they
play with about $60 billion. That's an awful lot of money. And they decide the
flow of capital goods, they decide the life and death of nations and of
governments, and it's not a conspiracy, it's just that they're very wealthy.
They have timber here and rubber there and coal over there and automobiles in
another country and gold mining or diamonds or in another country; they have
extensive wealth, and they're mainly men, about 60-80 of them, some women, but
mainly men, and of course they decide communications, they decide the big
questions that are to be decided.

They're in armaments, they're merchants of death, as we call them, but the
decide the flow of armaments and who can create a war, who can fight a war and
who can't fight a war. These are mainly the people who do it. It's a question
of money, and they know each other because as the present Pope is always
saying, if you have 30 men in a room and five men are 10-foot high and the
rest are 5- foot high, guess who the 10-foot high men are going to talk to. It
stands to reason. If I can gamble with you, if I can play opposite you with my
$40 billion, and you have $40 billion or $10 billion or $60 billion, obviously
you and I are going to be sparring partners and partners too in business
because we can finance things, so they run the world from the point of view of
trade and capital and the New World Order, and they will decide whether the
United Nations can make a decision in the UN Security Council or not, if
they're going to finance it, or not, and whether the American government would
be allowed finance for a visit to Bosnia with its 25,000 troops we have there
at the present moment, whether Syria can wage a war, whether Israel can attack
Iran, which now seems is one of the possibilities in order that they can kill
off the terrorism, but that's not a decision by the Kinesit in Israel alone.
They've got to depend on financial backing.

Interviewer:

You said that Gorbachev and John Paul II were the driving forces in creating
a New World Order - what role could Gorbachev still play

M. Martin:

He plays an enormous role. Remember that Mikhail Gorbachev is the most
extraordinary phenomenon that we've had in the 20th Century because he has
enormous influence, he is the instrument by which the Soviet Union was
liquidated; the Soviet Union didn't collapse, there's no question of the thing
caving in as the popular idea has that suddenly it all went to pieces. No, No,
No. What happened with the Soviet Union was very different. Erich Hoenicher(?)
who was the dictator of East Germany, one of the worst places in the Communist
world at that time, had a difficulty with an increasing riot and demonstration
outside the Church of St. Nicholas in East Berlin and he phoned Gorbachev and
Gorbachev said leave town, and Milas Jacus(?) the dictator of Czechoslovakia
did the same thing and he was told the same thing, and the dictator of
Bulgaria made the same call; he was told to leave town.

The one dictator who didn't leave town at his bidding was Ceausescu, and
look what happened to him, so it was a real demise of the Soviet Union and
it's part of the Leninist plan of long range absorption of the West; (edit
with Phone interuption.) so Mikhail Gorbachev is a very important character,
his influence is enormous, and he is backed by enormous funds and he now has
his `green foundation - Gorbachev USA, Gorbachev Moscow and Gorbachev Holland,
and he has tremendous influence and tremendous funds. He will end up finally
being in a key position in the council of security and co-operation in Europe
which is going to be a major operator in the post-2000 years of this world, if
we' re all alive and not blown to pieces. So he's a very important man, and
he's very influential, and he's a marked man, there's no doubt about that.

He is the favorite. While he was still virtual dictator of the Soviet Union
in 1990-91, he resigned, by the way, on Christmas Day in 1991, while he was
still boss of the all the Russias his American friends had already founded a
foundation for him here but didn't call it by its name until he was free,
which he was after December 25th. He's a favored man; he's favored by the
major foundations in America - Ford Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation,
the Carnagie Endowment - he's their chosen man, but he's only an instrument,
and he's the instrument of those who plan on a globalist world.

Interviewer:

John Paul II is reported to be in failing health - what will his continuing
role be.

M. Martin:

John Paul II actually today - today is the 18th of April, 1996 -
actuarially, if you understand what I'm trying to say, in insurance, you can
back him for the next 4-6 years and sure, yes, he's got osteoporosis, sure he
was operated on for a pre-cancerous condition, whatever that means, and sure
he has funny megalous virus, which poisons and then goes back into hiding
which leaves him weak, he's had a few asthmatic? attacks, but actuarially you
can insure him for the next 4 to 6 years and he's a tough Pollack, he is
really a tough Pollack, and he intends to live until the year 2000, now
whether the Almighty in Heaven wants him to live until the year 2000 is
something else. That we will only find out by waiting, but he intends to live
on and he has made a revolution in his Church which very few people are aware
of; he has changed the entire theology of the Church, changed the entire
meaning of priesthood, changed the entire meaning of mass, changed the meaning
of faith and belief, and there's now a quiet revolution against him within the
Catholic Church. People are saying he's going too far, he's altered the basic
religion.

Interviewer:

Briefly, how has he altered it

M. Martin:

By his teaching. He has taken the doctrine promulgated by the Vatican Council which met in the `60s and drew up a series of fifteen documents, instructions for the Church to follow, and he has elaborated on them in such a way that it is a totally different theology from what we were taught, and I'm 75, and believe you me, it does not resemble the Catholicism we had prior to
1965 and Pope John Paul II is the leader of that. He's the inventor and leader and the teacher and the codifier and the theorist. It's his own theology imposed on the Church as such.

Interviewer:

John Paul said he wanted to play a major role in the geo-political formation of the society of nations ...

M. Martin:

John Paul II has decided, very early on, by the way, from the time he became Pope on the 16th of October, 1978, and from the word go he made it quite clear he intended to be a geo-political leader, not merely a religious leader, but a geo-political leader. That means that he envisages a day when his form of Catholicism will be seated in conjunction with the global leaders deciding
questions of education, questions of trade, questions of commerce, questions of money and monetary arrangements, and life and death. He envisages that, and his theology is geared to fit him and his successors to occupy that position. As I said to you before, there's a quiet revolution and rebellion against that within the Catholic Church, and since there are almost one billion of us and we have an ancient tradition and we're very well educated, the fight has just
started, but we are up against a man who is absolutely stubborn on this; absolutely fixed in his own mind about it, and is using all the power of the papacy, which is huge, and remember that the influence of the papacy is tremendous.

On Vatican hill he has ambassadors from 115 nations and he has his own representatives in over 90 nations. No other power on earth has that, and that's why the Vatican is valued by everybody because everybody can meet everybody on neutral ground, so there's tremendous power there, and although the faith is not practiced as well as it used to be, still, its prestige and
standing are very great, and the result is, he can call on that.

Malachi Martin Interviews, International Affairs
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